Bootstrapped Giants

Andrew Warner: [00:00:00] So Benedict Evans is a very influential analyst in tech. He has done this now for, I thought he was still with Andreesen [00:00:09] Horowitz. And truthfully, the reason that I thought that is because he's no longer attached to any company. He's an independent analyst who now happens to work for Mosaic Ventures.

The [00:00:18] fact that he was associated with any company is just kind of a memory of mine. Um. And what's big about him is the level of [00:00:27] analysis that he brings into a market. And this year he did a presentation that he called AI Eats the World. I think it's really interesting you sent it [00:00:36] over to me. I thought we could analyze some of the slides and just talk about what you think they mean and maybe go deeper than he even went on it 'cause he was just kind of ripping through these slides and ideas.

[00:00:45] Fair? Yeah, let's do it. Alright, so Jesse, here's the thing that actually stood out for me. He talked about how startups exist to unbundle use cases, and the [00:00:54] classic one is Excel spreadsheets, right? They, they basically take away these big pieces and then he says, and chat GPT, and you and I have been talking about this.

[00:01:03] Will, will that happen do you think, where startups will unbundle the key features of chat GPT? Or is this an un, [00:01:12] a new path where it's going to eat it up?

Jesse Pujji: Yeah, it's a great question. It's a, it's a trillion dollar question in one direction or the other. [00:01:21] Right. And I think, right. You know, it's interesting.

One funny thing to think about with Excel is Excel existed as this only, it was the only game in town for a long time. And [00:01:30] then as SAS and the internet distribution came about, there were features and functionality that that shifted that. So Google, Google Docs being, I mean, I personally haven't been in an [00:01:39] Excel spreadsheet in a long time because.

We use Google Docs for everything. Right. And, and for a lot of things other than hardcore financial modeling. And then let's take it one step further, then [00:01:48] companies like, um, what's their names? Um, their name's escaping me, but there's a bunch of these spreadsheet companies that popped up that were making [00:01:57] much smarter automated spreadsheets.

Mm-hmm. Right. Um, why am I forgetting their names?

Andrew Warner: Uh, sad. Oh, man. I know the one you're talking about. Not [00:02:06] Airtable, but that machine. Yeah. Airtable. No, Airtable is

Jesse Pujji: an example of it. Smartsheet. Airtable. There you go. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Like, I think Airtable is the best example of it, um, where it's like, hey, [00:02:15] now you have the, it's kind of a spreadsheet, but it's, it's like a, it's, it's, they taken SAS or Google Sheets to the next level because there's so many new things you can do and even Excel kind [00:02:24] of, and, and then there's, you know, of course the CRM in some sense is a version of Excel.

Like it's a specialized version of it, so. I, you know, I like to look at history when I think about some of these questions. So [00:02:33] that, that's like one interesting mental model. Now you look at chat, GBT and you kind of say, what's gonna win there? And people, by the way, love to argue this, [00:02:42] like it's, I don't think it's gonna be one thing or the other, like it's gonna, it's just a question of how much is chat, GBT, gonna to eat everything, versus how much are there gonna [00:02:51] be solutions used?

Andrew Warner: So you're thinking it's not eating everything, it's just. Like it's gonna eat a lot of things. And then also gonna be a lot of other things, a lot of like [00:03:00] standalone products that take off a feature of chat GPT and make it into their own standalone products.

Jesse Pujji: Yeah, I mean, what, what I was trying to do is like, what's the framework?

How do you think about that question? Because I think [00:03:09] that's like, you know, is it, um, you know, there's a famous example of Jasper AI was one of the first marketing AI companies that apparently went up to close to a hundred million a [00:03:18] RR and then came right back down to 30 or 40, you know. And it's because a lot of their features and functionality of writing an ad or writing copy, just it was so easy in chat GPT [00:03:27] that their tooling didn't necessarily have it.

So I think here's my somewhat of a mental model for it. I think. I think you need it to be somewhat [00:03:36] vertical specific or, or pretty vertical specific. I think that's a big part of it.

Andrew Warner: Mm-hmm.

Jesse Pujji: Um, at the end of the day, [00:03:45] OpenAI is still a company like any other company. So if, if OpenAI wanted to let, let's pick a, pick a vertical.

I'm gonna pick a, I'm gonna pick a great one. Note taking. [00:03:54] That's not a vertical, that's not a, oh, that's, that, that's like a function, right? Like a verti, A vertical would be like underwriting insurance. Okay. Or, uh, legal. [00:04:03] Legal. Uh, legal. Yeah. Legal. So legal has actually legal right now. There are a bunch of companies out there that are using their models mm-hmm.

But seem to be pretty resilient. And the reason is, well, [00:04:12] legal is very complicated. It's, it's got its own things. And the point I was gonna make earlier is open AI is still just a group of human beings. If they wanna build a legal tool, they have [00:04:21] to do the same thing a startup has to do. They have to go find a bunch of people, they have to go get clients, they have to figure out the problem.

They have to make up the thing that has the problem. So it's not [00:04:30] like, even if though their AI is powerful, they still have to do all the same things. And even if you think about how it's probably organized internally at OpenAI mm-hmm. There's like, there's the model team who's [00:04:39] making the LLM. And then there's some different group of people with a different leader who's probably in charge of like the legal group inside of there.

And so how is that any different than a [00:04:48] startup being outside of the, of the LLM Now, if the LLM gets so smart that it can just absorb all those things, that's kind of the risk everyone's worrying about. [00:04:57] But I think you're gonna have people who build hooks into these firms. They're gonna be experts, so distribution will matter a lot.

I think OpenAI might just buy them. [00:05:06] I mean, Google and Facebook did this all the time as they were becoming platforms, right? I mean, Google famously bought YouTube and it was like, oh, well, hey, they like these other guys got [00:05:15] distribution, they got scale. And then Google said, oh, we'll just buy you. Why would we, you know, by the way, they had a competitor called Google Videos and it didn't do as well.

Just like OpenAI launched a an N eight [00:05:24] N competitor recently and and they also have note taker. They have a note taker that they listen to. They do so. So it is not a guarantee at all. But I think vertical specific, [00:05:33] you know, I think I would pick a problem that was like. Probably medium-sized, not the biggest.

If you go after the biggest problems, they're gonna want to go after the biggest [00:05:42] problems, obviously. So you have to find something that they're like, eh, that one's not that interesting for us. So it's like sufficiently com, sufficiently in expertise. Some complexity and like [00:05:51] medium sized. Medium-sized could still be a multi-billion dollar opportunity, but just medium-sized relative to like, if you're, if you're open AI and, [00:06:00] and I think you have a good shot at building something really valuable, that will be resilient.

Andrew Warner: Okay. One of the screenshots that he has, or one of the charts that he brought on is this [00:06:09] one, which essentially what it's saying is what Gary Tan told me when we talked, they are huge into AI over at Y Combinator. And you can [00:06:18] see that AI back in 2015 was, its a tiny sliver of the companies they invested in.

And now they are basically a hundred percent, let's say 90% [00:06:27] of, uh, their investments in AI companies. And a lot of them, Jesse, even if you look at how Y Combinator describes them, they will say they are [00:06:36] the lovable of, or the cursor of this thing. And so they're, they're banking on that. Um, for sure. Alright, let's go on to,

Jesse Pujji: well, I, I mean, that chart's funny.

I'd be [00:06:45] curious to look at that chart in like, what the other categories were. 'cause like, I mean, that chart probably looks the same as what mobile looked like. In 2010 to 20, you and I [00:06:54] already lived through mobile, right? Everything was mobile. I, you know, this is mobile. That's mobile. Of course it was mobile.

That's the thing where that's the, the platform. That's the shift that's taking place. So [00:07:03] in some ways it's a little like, well, duh, of course everything is gonna be ai. 'cause you shouldn't be starting a company that's not, that's not ai. I see what you're saying.

Andrew Warner: E everything is ai. [00:07:12] So now let's get beyond it and say, what are you?

If you're That's right. It's like saying I'm, I'm a tech company. Alright. Yeah. The next thing. There was a time

Jesse Pujji: when people said that I'm an

Andrew Warner: [00:07:21] internet company. Right? And then it became so obvious that you were like, of course you are bringing it up. Yeah. Um, why did you send this one to me? [00:07:30] Why'd you text this screenshot?

It's, uh, let me just read it out. It's the Accenture, um, new quarterly generative AI contracts and millions, and [00:07:39] the chart just keeps going up, up from 2023. Well, it's almost

Jesse Pujji: 2 billion according to this, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I, I think there's gonna be a mass, a [00:07:48] massive. Trillion dollar plus mar, you know, services industry around AI implementation.

And, and let's think about why for a second. [00:07:57] 'cause there's a lot of interesting pieces to this. Number one, uh, the nature of building AI tools. [00:08:06] Let's just, you know, people call it AI tools, but let's just think of it as automation and software. You know, if you, the average company in marketing and [00:08:15] sales, they have ideas.

They're like, oh, I should get this automated. It was a very classic thing at ambush where the team on the other side would go, oh, I need this done. They can't get any dev [00:08:24] resources. 'cause the product team is using all the dev resources. Yeah. But they'd say, Hey, if you could automate this for me, this influencer thing, they'd put it on their chart and impact, [00:08:33] confidence, ease.

They'd go, you know, it's kind of big, but we're not sure it's gonna work. It's gonna take us six to nine months and five engineers to build it and we're not sure it's gonna [00:08:42] work. Like, sorry, we're just not gonna make the investment. If you ask any AI first engineer now, they'll tell you like, I can build you something.

It's gonna be probably a little [00:08:51] worse than I used to be when I, when I would code it up, maybe 20% worse, but I can get it to you 90% faster and 75% cheaper. [00:09:00] And so when you change those variables, what it's gonna create is every, every team is gonna have a bunch of, we'll call them, we could call it software or tools or automation, but they're gonna have a [00:09:09] bunch of those different things and.

And, and so you're gonna end up having every organization, let's say a marketing team is gonna have 30 [00:09:18] different things that they couldn't have built five years ago. Now there's a now. So that's the first thing you have to believe. The second thing is they're for at least for the next five years, they're not gonna know how to build it [00:09:27] themselves, right?

So they're gonna need a third party to come in and un understand it and this asset and build it. But services, businesses are built to get close to a client, understand [00:09:36] their workflow, and then build out against it. And then the last thing I would just point out is that this is not a new. Phenomenon.

There's a stat that like for every dollar [00:09:45] of of salesforce.com or HubSpot revenue, there's $5 of services revenue because people needed to implement those cloud providers. They need to make sure [00:09:54] they worked and there's big businesses built that do that. So that that, I think cloud is gonna look small relative to AI from a revenue for a [00:10:03] RR perspective, and I think services.

We'll look even bigger as a result of that.

Andrew Warner: Do you think this goes up and then goes down when something else happens? Or are we looking at a chart that just goes [00:10:12] up and becomes the new norm that companies spend billions of dollars every year on generative AI contracts on automations?

Jesse Pujji: Yeah. I mean, look, [00:10:21] I, I think it, it, you'll never see the down because the up will sort of outdo it, but like, I don't, and you know, what do you think [00:10:30] on-prem consulting looks like these days?

Like at one point that was a huge industry and now cloud consulting is a much bigger industry and it, we just never even, I mean in turn [00:10:39] in, I'm sure in some old document we could find someone showing their on-prem consulting business going down, right? Or, um, so there are consulting and there are [00:10:48] revenues and, and things as they become less of a thing.

Nobody, but you never see them from the outside because they're just like declining businesses.

Andrew Warner: Uh, [00:10:57] essentially what he was saying was, oh, it was one of the first ones he goes. The, I'm, I'm gonna find it. I don't care. Oh, here we go. I'm gonna share my screen now. And he's [00:11:06] essentially saying, are we looking at something that's continuing to grow?

Like we expect like PCs, like [00:11:15] mainframes, like, uh, here one sec, here's the chart. Is this gonna be like mainframes that grow and then we end, end up with a new norm, then [00:11:24] PCs take over grow and we end up with a new norm web, et cetera. And is that what AI's gonna be? Or are we looking at something that is dramatically bigger?[00:11:33]

That's the big question. Right? And so if it's dramatically bigger than we can expect that, uh, spending for, for AI [00:11:42] software by companies gonna continue and continue to grow. If it's just the next new thing, then it'll grow until whatever comes up after that. [00:11:51]

Jesse Pujji: Yeah. Um, what do you think? I, I think it's definitely bigger than, than these things, these examples, uh, because it's, in [00:12:00] some ways I, I would re reimagine that chart.

You know, I love my charts. Like, to me it's more like a pyramid or something. Like it's, it's, they're building on top of each other and it's actually expanding. [00:12:09] So it's like, first I had computing and then the internet sat on top of computing, or, you know, the, there's PC then, then you couldn't have the internet without the pc.

Then you [00:12:18] couldn't have mobile without the internet already there. Right. And now. And so you're just getting wider and wider with your capabilities. And it's almost like the world, I mean, imagine Chat GBT, you [00:12:27] couldn't have it without the internet because we're all connected to it. Um, and of course it could live on your device in theory, but it just, it wouldn't be a great experience.

And so [00:12:36] I think it, I think it has a chance to be a lot bigger. I think there's a lot of real world stuff that, that gen AI can touch, that nothing could touch up until it, uh, but [00:12:45] he also has these great examples that I think are, are really like helpful. Like he talks about the automated elevators. Did you see that one?

Andrew Warner: Yeah. He was saying, look at how [00:12:54] elevators started to pop up with these people in it. Then it became, and he showed the graph of how many people were working in the space, and so suddenly you had these big, massive number of jobs and [00:13:03] then as automation came in, they were replaced and now there's basically nobody running an elevator.

Yeah. So

Jesse Pujji: I think, I think the AI stuff really hits a lot of different jobs that are really [00:13:12] offline jobs or formerly creative jobs, like jobs you couldn't have re imagined. Uh, replace. Now again, I, I tend to be the optimist and go like, yeah, but tons more jobs will be [00:13:21] created and the opportunity we can't imagine will be created because of this.

Um, and so I think people will be fine. You know, we never heard about any issues with the elevator. Like those [00:13:30] people all found jobs. Uh, but it's just interesting to imagine how much stuff like that it will end up replacing.

Andrew Warner: Okay. Here's another, uh, along the same [00:13:39] lines. He was talking about this. Where he's saying steam engines gave Britain the equivalent labor labor of [00:13:48] five times of its total population.

So basically the steam engine engines didn't just take over the jobs of people, but they're basically more people than you could [00:13:57] have. And still, you end up with more, more jobs coming out.

Jesse Pujji: Well, it's, it's, isn't it the classic thing of the pie growing? I mean, as long as [00:14:06] the pie is growing, there's always, there's always more for everyone.

Um. Alright. There was a really cool thing, by the way, sidebar, did you see this [00:14:15] Ari Emanuel interview? I think Patrick O'Shaughnessy did. No. Oh, you would love it. I think it, it'll speak to your heart right now because you know what his, the, [00:14:24] his whole thesis is on ai.

Andrew Warner: Yes. He says, look, I can't understand ai.

I'm not gonna get it. I'm not gonna outsmart everyone else. I'm gonna go the opposite direction. I'm gonna go for live. You [00:14:33] cannot reproduce live with ai. So that's what I'm going all in on. He's raised a bunch of money to go and buy all these, it's the anti AI thesis, the anti, which is anti AI thesis, which is,

Jesse Pujji: hey, if, what if people are [00:14:42] only working three day weeks and making as much money as they make, they're gonna have a bunch of free time on their hands.

Let's, let's cater to that. Uh, you know what?

Andrew Warner: And he keeps saying that people [00:14:51] already are working four days a week. Who are these people working four days a week?

Jesse Pujji: I think there's a lot of people who work for, I mean, I think remote work plus all this stuff has [00:15:00] definitely created, made work easier. But I think, I think his trend, I think I love that trend.

I've also had the thought, you know, I'm on the board of a grocery store, like people are gonna need to eat. [00:15:09] Like, and, and you know, they never, no one ever worries about that in the grocery business, interestingly, right? We never talk about do people need to eat? We talk about the type of of trends, but that's like a [00:15:18] really cool thing.

When you think about the resilience of it. We talk a lot about distribution. Is it competing against Costco and they, you know, using Instacart, but we never talk about if [00:15:27] people are gonna need to eat. And, and that's a good one. And like, real estate is an interesting one. Like, I'm, I've been spending a lot more time thinking about putting, you know, more money of mine, my assets [00:15:36] into real estate.

Uh, because you're just like, well, people are gonna need a place to live. Right. Especially like multifamily. It just feels like people are gonna need a place to live. [00:15:45]

Andrew Warner: I see. Food is the anti ai homes are the anti ai Yeah. Entertainment. Uh, I get [00:15:54] that he also actually benedicted in this po in this slide, uh, presentation.

He said, look at how much of e of commerce has gone to [00:16:03] e-commerce. And he just showed a graphic that goes up, up, up, up, up. But if you look at it carefully, he says, excluding, did you see this gas and groceries? They're like the two [00:16:12] obnoxious big expenses that would ruin the chart if you included them. Um,

Jesse Pujji: well

Andrew Warner: pull,

Jesse Pujji: let's pull that one up.

I mean, that's an interesting one because I think. The [00:16:21] other thing that, that, I think it's just worth noting on those charts is it's still probably not a majority of commerce

Andrew Warner: for for groceries, you're saying,

Jesse Pujji: right? No, no, no. Forget [00:16:30] about groceries. Just pull that chart up. Okay. Here, let's

Andrew Warner: take a look. You are right.

You know what? This is the part that I just can't believe I live in a whole other world. That's right. [00:16:39] I just cannot imagine here. This is it. It's going up every year since the beginning of this is around the year 2000. It goes up [00:16:48] over COVID. I, it comes down, but not nearly even to pre COVID levels, and then it continues to

Jesse Pujji: go up.

Uh, but the total number is the most interesting thing, [00:16:57] which is it's only 30%.

Andrew Warner: I know for that, that means

Jesse Pujji: 70%. I mean, imagine this is a great example of like, what if we just showed you a chart that just showed it going from a hundred percent [00:17:06] down to 70%? You'd be like, oh. What's a big deal, but like, you know, massive companies, Shopify, fa, Facebook, I mean, they're [00:17:15] all building that, but yet there's still so much more room to run.

Yeah, right. I mean, when you look at Char, anytime I used to look at charts like this, I'd buy more Google stock, I'd buy more [00:17:24] Facebook stock. 'cause I was just like, you know, we still got a lot of room. Like this number could be 40%. Mm-hmm. And you would still [00:17:33] say it's not even the majority. And that 40% for Shopify and Facebook.

And Google is another like hundred billion. It, it's probably another 500 [00:17:42] billion in market cap, you know, for Facebook and Google and another a hundred or 200 billion in Shopify market cap because that's how much bigger these markets can get. And it's just crazy [00:17:51] when you think about it. Okay, how about this one?

This is the very next and chat GB T will catalyze it a lot more, dude, because you ask a question and it gives you the answer. There's just, there's [00:18:00] just gonna be another catalyst. And more likely that there's things we wouldn't have bought offline that we will now buy off on online because. Chat. GBT will change the experience.[00:18:09]

Andrew Warner: Look at this. This is Robo Taxii use in California. You and I were in San Francisco when these robo taxis were being tested in the street, and it felt like such an odd [00:18:18] thing. Will they ever come, will they not? And for a long time it was so frustrating you couldn't get a ride. They weren't coming. It felt like maybe they were all gonna bomb, just like [00:18:27] cruise.

Um, and then did, did

Jesse Pujji: you see that thing that went around recently where it was the thesis for how Google's gonna be a $10 trillion company? No. What is that? [00:18:36] Oh man, you gotta see it. There's a, they even have like a, uh, a funny image of, you know, the, did you, do you ever watch the Teenage Meet and Ninja [00:18:45] Turtles?

Andrew Warner: Not really.

Jesse Pujji: Uh, but, you know, you know, there's like, I do know them for sure. They're splinter and then there's the four turtles. So there's this image of them where they're [00:18:54] kids and they're little turtles and, and Master Splinter is very big. And then there's an image of them where they're grown up turtles and he's kind of the small one.

And he's got his four, the four [00:19:03] Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And somebody applied that to Google and basically showed the search business as Master Splinter and then [00:19:12] Cloud Waymo ai, uh, and I can't remember the other one, but those four as basically like, they used to be the little turtles. [00:19:21] Now they're all gonna be, become the big turtles and make search really basically dwarf search.

They're gonna dwarf search and, and if you believe that. Then Google [00:19:30] is, is is still a three X from here and it's diversified and it's still, it's not like their core business is going down either. [00:19:39]

Andrew Warner: The thing that I took away from this was it feels like it's kind of here. It's here for special people. It's here in a small basis, and then boom, it [00:19:48] explodes.

And that's what we're seeing on this chart that. Robo Taxii trips in California are tiny. They're kind of flat for about a year. Even once [00:19:57] they're up, it doesn't seem like a thing. And then it just takes over so much that it feels ridiculous not to have been in one. And now people are, you could decide not to take one, but if you're [00:20:06] taking an Uber, there's a very good chance if you do it on regular basis, you're gonna end up in one of these Waymo's.

Jesse Pujji: I think that's right. And, and yeah, I mean the, the other crazy chart in this of, just in the spirit [00:20:15] of thinking that way, is like the dating chart. Mm-hmm. Yes. And I mean, we should share that. Like if, if, if you know, pe how many people, how many [00:20:24] heterosexual people met their spouses online in 1995? It's, it's close to zero obviously.

Um, and even 2000 or 2005, it was, it's [00:20:33] maybe 10, you know, 15% and now it's more than half of people. More than half. And anecdotally you hear that, I feel like an old person. I'm [00:20:42] like, yeah, I just met my, my, my wife in high school. Dude,

Andrew Warner: I remember busting, uh, Gary Vaynerchuk's chops, like he was acting all [00:20:51] cool and everything.

I go, how did you meet your wife? And it's like, online dating. And my like, come on, what's wrong with you? Message was, you [00:21:00] must not be that cool if you had to go online and date, like somebody who's, who needed a assistance. And then I think about that all the time because everyone is, [00:21:09] is finding their partner that way.

It feels ridiculous today to walk up to someone at a bar, which I would still prefer to do if I was single, but, uh, of course you're gonna go online, [00:21:18] why bother with all those other headaches?

Jesse Pujji: So, but it, but it just shows how fat, like, it's kind of, remind me of that chart you just showed, which is, you know, five years ago, [00:21:27] percentage of people using Robotaxis near zero.

I think in 15 years it's gonna be more than half of us.

Andrew Warner: I dunno why I can't find that chart. But yes, I do think that that, so that's the [00:21:36] big takeaway from this. So what is he really saying here? He's saying that this is really slow, but it could be much bigger than all those other [00:21:45] growths. And there's a lot more opportunity than we saw.

And one thing that's not in the, uh, in the Google Slides that he shared, but wasn't his presentation was, he goes, [00:21:54] A lot of us are thinking about maybe chat, GPT and AI is going to replace search. But he goes, let me give you an example of something that doesn't replace [00:22:03] search. I took a picture of my refrigerator and I said, this is what I have.

What should I cook? I would never have put that into Google. It's going to expand that pie even further. [00:22:12]

Jesse Pujji: Well, it's, it's kind of like the, you know, you and I got really excited about that Suno app, right? Oh yeah. That make music using, and that's the one that makes music out. [00:22:21] Which by the way, it's another interesting example of like, will chat GPT eat that or not?

I don't know the answer to that question, but like. I don't think they will [00:22:30] because these guys have built a really thoughtful user case study. They're, you know, they've got distribution quickly, and I'm not sure it's that interesting of a market for chat, GPT, so it kind of fits some of the [00:22:39] parameters we talked about earlier, right?

Mm-hmm. But, but the most interesting thing about Suno as a business is already, since we've played [00:22:48] with it, I sent it as like a, a gift gag for a friend. Um, Adrian had someone do it for a client and a [00:22:57] client relationship and how their growth assistant is performing. It's really good. It's a good song. So these things just expand.

Like we just would never have ever thought to do those [00:23:06] things, and then you start to think to do so again, this is all pie creation. It goes back to that idea that like, I mean, dude, there's gonna be agencies that live on [00:23:15] Suno and all they do is make marketing songs. So like every, like I was telling, uh, a Chin and Adrian who you both know like.

Every client, we [00:23:24] should send them a song every quarter about how the quarter went and how their growth assistants are performing. And we can also send the growth assistant kudos that way. Hey, here's a song about what you did [00:23:33] this last month. Right? Thank you for being a great member. And the person who gets to listen to the song and like, by the way, more than 30% of people you brought this up that I've shown songs about, we did it for, uh, [00:23:42] Larissa, who is our pair, is now kinda our nanny.

Ah-huh. We did a song for, she started crying and people start crying. They get very emotional when they hear these songs. And, and it's just a crazy [00:23:51] thing that, that like, I'll tell you why

Andrew Warner: Malcolm Gladwell did this whole great podcast episode about why country music is more emotional than rock and roll.

And he goes, rock and [00:24:00] roll is so general because it's appealing to a general audience. Country is appealing to a small group of people and they could get specific about the situation that these people are going through. This is [00:24:09] like a million zillion times more specific. I specifically had a note in there about how Olivia, when I weighed one for her.

When our baby got his [00:24:18] finger stuck in the door jam, she rushed to him when I looked away 'cause I couldn't stand to look at it. That's like such a moment in our lives that you can't have some rock and roll or [00:24:27] even a country singer do. By the way, I talked to Richard, uh, who works over at, you know, he goes.

Andrew, you don't even see the use cases. He goes, first of all, students are using this to [00:24:36] memorize things and prepare. I said, oh, I thought I was the only one who goes, no, they're doing that. He goes, for sure people are sending it to potential clients. Walk on music and then he goes, there are [00:24:45] people who have issues emotionally.

That they need something to help them get through. They're writing these custom songs that allow them to do that. And these are not [00:24:54] use cases. So essentially that's what we're saying. It's going to expand the pie. So if we were to just sum up, before we go into anything else here, actually, if we were to sum up what we took away from this, [00:25:03] what did we take away that it's so revolutionary that he said here?

Jesse Pujji: I think the trend is just much bigger and much earlier than anybody [00:25:12] actually thinks. And the reason is 'cause we, our brains are like, it's so hyped. It must all be there and that's not the case at all. The hype precedes the actual [00:25:21] substantive growth that's happened with social, it happened with mobile, happened with the internet.

It just always happens. So I think that's a really, really important point. I think the second point is like you [00:25:30] really have to start to think about where to play inside of this map and like we, we offered a framework that I think could be helpful. The third thing is this concept of the pie [00:25:39] expanding because there's things you would do that you wouldn't do when the technology changes and it shifts.

And I think all of those are just really real. Like those are, those are my quick, quick hot [00:25:48] takes on, on this, uh, on this big AI thing that Ben, Ben did.

Andrew Warner: Okay, I'm gonna give you two of mine. One is. It [00:25:57] goes slow and then it pops up. And a lot of these things we feel like we're big on, like Gary Vaynerchuk doing online dating.

It feels like, okay, he might be ahead of the [00:26:06] pack and maybe this is the, this is as big as it's gonna get. No, there's a much bigger pop beyond that. And the same thing for robo taxis. It's just, it goes slow. It seems like it's got whatever adoption's gonna [00:26:15] take and then it goes pop. And then the other thing is, maybe this is more of the same.

But different, maybe there is a much bigger pop here than we we had seen before. Maybe instead of [00:26:24] like one of his graphs that goes like this and it's more, maybe we're now looking at something that potentially can shoot up massively. And if that's what it is, then I want [00:26:33] to be on and I want to, I want that.

Alright, good stuff. Thanks a lot. Cool. Bye.